Ok so here's the deal. I'm doing some research for a friend in need. Since I don't quite understand the science behind men's brains - and my friend sure needs some honest opinion none of us can deliver, I thought... hey I can ask the men here so maybe she can read this tomorrow and get a clue on what is happening. I have just finished hours of beers and listening to what happened, and honestly... I need help from people who carry penises because I don't have a clue on what to tell her.
All I ask of you is something simple. Be honest. Don't give me the usual crap because I can smell it a mile away. We need the ugly truth here, guys. Ok??? Deal.
Here's the brief. My friend is kind of dating someone. Divorced, nice looking guy. They started out like the rest of us did. A little hang out there... Some drinks after work... A dinner and a movie... A dinner and a movie and some "dessert" after. You know the drill, pun intended. Neither wanted to be in a relationship, mostly because they had recently finished a relationship and wanted to date around. Simple, right?
I'm going to cut to the chase 'cause this post can go on forever. The thing is simple. My friend suddenly finds herself... in like. (I asked quite a lot and that's all she gave me) She wants to go a little bit forward in their "dating" situation. He has been inviting her to anywhere he wants, he asks her to stay with him during the week a couple of times, he talks about stuff with her that he doesn't talk with anyone else, he said. We would think he's interested, right?
The beef is simple. A couple of days ago she talked to the guy and told him: I'm not looking for another friend with benefits. I feel that I want more out of "this". She also said that she knew that she started out telling him that she was not interested in anything more. But hey, shit happens. She asked something simple: if you think we can have a future, if you see that you might be interested in me on another way, please let me know. If not, I can be your friend, but not with benefits. Also, if not, I can go on with my life and meet another great guy. Seems logical, no?
Ok here's the part where you come in, you testicle owners. We need to know why the dude hasn't responded to her question. More so, the guy continues to call, continues to wants "something-something", continues to be in her life and vice versa... but the question still is out there, with no answer.
What does she needs to do to get an answer? Does she continue dating him while still wondering if he will ever answer? Does she stop... you know? Should she tell him how she feels more than "I would want us to try this out"? If he really wants to date around and is not looking for a relationship... why does he sleeps with, hangs out, invites her to anywhere, calls her every single day - and doesn't do it with anybody else?
This is a wonderful woman. Beautiful, mega smart and a funny, damn funny chick. I think she deserves an answer. I'm counting on you to deliver what I couldn't. The truth from a men's point of view. (The day I can it's because I've attached a shlong and I really don't want to)
Much muaks and hope to read loads of comments.
Me.
24 comments:
Ummm... okay. I have testicles and a fairly recent divorce. I'll take a stab at this...
Does she continue dating him while still wondering if he will ever answer?
If she continues dating him without an answer, she will forever wonder.
Does she stop... you know?
No, know what? Stop wondering? Stop asking questions she might not want the answers to? Stop 'dessert' and the 'drilling'?
Men need a 2 by 4 upside the head sometimes. Well, lots of the time. S P E L L it out for him and be willing to back it up with action. If the benefits remain available, there's no reason to expect any forthcoming answers from your friend's "nice looking guy."
Should she tell him how she feels more than "I would want us to try this out"?
Yes.
If Dude is interested in more, or is a genuine, caring, and generally evolved male he will dig the direct approach. If not, better to find out sooner than later, if you ask me.
If he really wants to date around and is not looking for a relationship... why does he sleeps with, hangs out, invites her to anywhere, calls her every single day - and doesn't do it with anybody else?
Why do some predators play with their prey before finally putting their plaything out of its misery?
Just my $0.02. Hey, if your friend is indeed a "beautiful, mega smart and a funny, damn funny chick," she should have plenty of options.
And she deserves credit for laying it on the line and stating what she wants... if he doesn't answer, or avoids the conversation, there's only two possible reasons, imho :
a) he's having fun and doesn't want to ruin it, or
b) he doesn't respect adult, mature, intelligent conversation.
Either would seem to me to be a deal-breaker for a Life Mate, but I'm a hopeless romantic and a dreamer.
Good luck! :)
Well Daniel, you were the first brave one and I thank you. I just hope we get more comments so she can see different opinions...
The... you know... was sex. Just in case you want to answer that one.
Much muaks to you my testicle owner friend.
Have women learned nothing from “Sex and the City?” You know how Carrie always fucked things up with Big by constantly trying to place their relationship in neat little boxes/categories? Same thing. Sometimes actions speak louder than words. The guy is obviously into her, but probably doesn’t want to categorize their relationship just yet, for whatever reason (recently divorced, etc.)
Asking a guy about the future of a relationship when it’s just starting out seems desperate on your friend’s behalf. Let things evolve. You can’t bake a cake in five minutes. In most cases the best ingredient for anything is time. Only then will you know what direction you’re going in.
What does she need to do to get an answer? I’ll tell you this: if she keeps on asking, the only answer she’ll get is a relationship pink slip. Have fun, let it roll, see where it takes you… if you’re not satisfied after a while, move on – his loss, anyway. She needs to be in control.
Have either of you ever considered that maybe nothing’s wrong with the guy, but rather your friend? Does she have a history of this kind of thing happening to her? Is this a pattern for her? Does she have dependency issues? Maybe we should consider what she’s doing wrong.
I would agree with both previous comments... in a way.
My initial thought was to wonder how long this "relationship" was going on before your friend insisted on taking it out of the fun-zone and into the I'm-now-going-to-put-pressure-on-you-zone. Rarely does that help a potentially good relationship.
When dating my wife, (she tells me now) she began planning our wedding before I could even remember the name of the street where she lived. Had she illustrated any of that behavior at such an early point in the relationship, I would have run like the wind. (I was also divorced and recovering from a previous girl friend who COULDN'T WAIT to marry me)
But, it is also possible that the guy just wants a "friend with perks". That doesn't make him a bad guy, necessarily. Many women want that too. And sometimes that can grow into something more.
Bottom line? If your friend thinks this guy is worth it... back off on the pressure. If not, then she needs to determine if she wants the perks. If she doesn't. Say goodbye.
But If she pushes him for an answer that he doesn't want to give... it will be over.
Oh, and by the way. Not all men are Homer Simpson with a teensy brain. I am. But not all of us.
Um, dude. Big was always an asshole. Big time. And coming from that particular place (I had my Big, huge asshole, broke my heart, left him), I can tell you that sometimes we are left without options.
And for the argument of time, yes you can't bake a cake in 5 minutes. But you can't also be whisking the dough for 5 months! Wanna make a cake or want to fuck around in the kitchen? Get my point?
Look, the question is still up in the air. Her rules are: you don't want a relationship, then the sex, the dating, the drinks, the beach... stops. The dude doesn't want to answer, but still wants to hide the salami. Why is that?
To answer your question succinctly... it is possible that he just wants to fuck without a commitment. If that's not cool with her, then she should move on.
Now that we're on the subject...
Do men who fuck with no commitments take their girls to meet their mothers?
Well to contribute to the penis owning commentary, here's my take on it. Direct text shall be quoted nd commented on from the post and regarding to the comments.
First off you need to see the contradiction of the situation and after accepting that your friend contradicted herself, which you did we'll continue. I just want to make it abundantly clear that the rules were laid out and she wanted to change them.
"Neither wanted to be in a relationship, mostly because they had recently finished a relationship and wanted to date around. Simple, right?"
Yes, very simple. In a microcosm this means hi ,I like you, you like me, you give good head and so do I and we get enough well enough to not have that awkward silence after flushing the condom down the toilet. This means there's chemistry past the coital frolicking and conversation over dinner, after a movie or while he's muff diving is all a possibility. Power to you. That being said, the original terms of the binding verbal contract is that there's no strings attached. Why is this important? Your friend pretty much asked for a friend with benefits and now wants to upgrade which is fine, but this may not be the same wave length for the penis wielder.
This scenario is more common than some people realize. That being said, lets go to the second quote in question.
"She wants to go a little bit forward in their "dating" situation."
This reaction by your client would normally render the original contract null and void and in some cases it is better to cut your losses but since there's potential for this relationship, lets bite. The original terms gave a sense of security that if this guy gets cold feet at some moment in time, yes there will be the awkward breakup but he shall not be judged for not wanting to continue with it. To be honest, it's a false sense of security and without him admiting or her knowing it, the guy is apparently falling for her. There's just one mistake, The girl called the guy out and laid out new terms to someone who is insecure and apparently needs as many safety blankets as possible to cushion the fall into another relationship. By the way, I'm not being a dick, I'm speaking from experience because I came out of a long ass relationship, didn't want anything serious, fooled around with my best friend and am now right on my path to marry her. This didn't happen by accident and props to my girlfriend for directing me on a set path while giving me a sense of freedom that gave me the illusion that I wasn't going to end up with her. Did I take a while? Yes. Ask her, she busts my ribs from time to time because she knew she had me snagged and trusted in her female prowess to chip away at her conquest. She never put the situation in either we clear this shit up or we're over. She let me do the talking and make me believe I was acting freely. Watch My Big Fat Greek Wedding, it's not bullshit, it works and though we know more often that you give us credit what you're up to, we play along because we lke the attention and the consideration.
Next quote: "The beef is simple. A couple of days ago she talked to the guy and told him: I'm not looking for another friend with benefits."
Mistake. One that can't be corrected but one that he felt comfortable enough by pretty much bypassing. As restrictions put it: "if she keeps on asking, the only answer she’ll get is a relationship pink slip." Pressure is a womans worst achille's heel and they swear it'll get results... which they do... but quite often not the ones you're looking for. If you keep the pressure up, the reaction won't be the best because you're rushing him and if anyone hates to be rushed, it's a man. You don't rush a baby to finish eating and you don't push a man for an answer NOW unless it's totally necessary. To quote Tex: "When dating my wife, (she tells me now) she began planning our wedding before I could even remember the name of the street where she lived. Had she illustrated any of that behavior at such an early point in the relationship, I would have run like the wind." As Ben I was also shmoozed into the most wonderful relationship ever concocted by my little brain.
NEXT QUOTE:
"We need to know why the dude hasn't responded to her question. More so, the guy continues to call, continues to wants "something-something", continues to be in her life and vice versa... but the question still is out there, with no answer."
Daniel put it best: "If the benefits remain available, there's no reason to expect any forthcoming answers from your friend's "nice looking guy."
To put it in business terms, if you keep getting free ads, will you offer up money or keep receiving the free services. In blunt terms, if a man can get a blowjob and some hot steamy sex without having to commit, why should he? The reaction of the guy is possibly this, man I'm going out with this girl, she's pretty cool ,attractive, looks dynamite in little black dresses like those movies they fuckign gawk over, she can talk about movies, books, and sports, she gives head and my hips are deliciously sore three days after we elope, I'm gonna marry this girl. Enter the awkward question and he goes, wait a minute... is there a psycho panther hidden in the bush?
Final QUOTE:
"What does she needs to do to get an answer? Does she continue dating him while still wondering if he will ever answer? Does she stop... you know?"
THe main concern for your friend is that she's falling in love with a fuck buddy and she wants to know if she's on that boat alone which is totally valid and a logical reaction.
Daniel says she won't get an answer if she keeps up the goods. I agree with him on that.
Restrictions and Ben say that if you don't give off the pressure, she'll fuck up. I also agree.
But your friend still needs to know an answer so what way can you find out where you stand with a guy you're fucking and like a whole lot. The seeing someone you know on either side of he spectrum seems to be a possible answer but can possibly give you as many queries as answers. You see someone you know, you say hi, they come to your table, when you go to present him, you kind of stumble on how to say it and can end off with this is your date, this is a friend, or this is Jake (fictional name, first one that came to mind). He then has the opportunity to react once the person you know leaves or he'll ignore it. Neither path is a definite answer but a possible scenario has him actually embracing the actual topic (highly unlikely though). The other is if he sees someone he knows, how does he present your friend. That could also offer some info or just baffle her a little bit more.
What y'all need to know is that the guy is more than clear that he has already been called out. Don't force him to bluff, make the call or fold. Let him play his hand as he sees fit. Why? Because the sex is good, the company is good and rather than going back to the pond just yet, at the very least you can gnaw on this snapper a while rather than blowing raspberries while striking out on more fishing.
Yes there are more fish in the sea. It's absurd to think otherwise, but sometimes you have to stick with your fish and see if he'll stink or if he'll be a nice plate of sushi you can continue to eat raw.
My take on it, back of on direct pressure and figure out how she can snag him ever more. Grab his butt in public and invite PDA's to send out a message to other scorpion women that this fly is snuggly fit in your tangle. See how he reacts to little things like that. See if the relationship evolves on its own or if there's really a plateau reached.
Your friend might be a lovely girl prime for marriage material, she might have issues, she might not be as good as you say or ten times better. None of us know, but we do know that at some point or another in our lives, some woman has said something to fuck up and cash her pink slip. Could it have continued? Possibly, but if you put us in such spots only to be more secure and to try and mend wounds that have nothing to do with your current suitor, you're going to fuck up.
Men & women often get locked up in past fuck ups and really dealing with any relationship in that matter is asking for trouble. Yes you can learn from what happened but the problem should stem from what you did wrong and what you should do this time around rather than seeing what you can do to fix, change or mold him to your specific needs. We all know that no one is perfect, but fuck, we really push for it often. So this guy avoided the question. Does that mean he's fucking someone else, he's taking it as fooling around, or looks at your friend as the mother to his children? Who knows? What I do know is that both come from fucked up relationships and both need time to get into a comfortable spot to flick that heart out there.
the only way this scenario is a lost caus is if she gets ideas that the guy is fucking every woman with a functional vagina in the state or if she pushes him to stop being a pussy and make a decision. We don't like being rushed and we don't like being called pussies even indirectly. Put time in perspective, take into account how long they've known each other, how long they've gone out, how the whole sexual fandango came about, how bad of a breakup was it last time, what time has passed since the breakup and what time is she willing to wait for the guy.
All I'm going to say is that I took about 10 months to dispense with the bullshit and proclaim to everyone I was in love and had found the woman I want to make babies with. Am I going to marry her? You bet your ass I am. Now ask me that same question two years 10 months back and see what my answer was then. Exactly.
Those are my $2.20 since I got carried away with the two. Oh well.
To answer the last question: Sometimes. Why? Because we men are weird beings that don't mesh well with women but oh it is so fun to hide the salami. As stated in my post, it took me twice as long of whisking my mixture and props to my love for being ballsy enough to trust in her prowess to whisk me in. Now it wouldn't be the first time I heard of a player taking a fuck buddy to a mom, but it's also possible this guy wants his mom to size her up. it's one of our tests, don't you ever for one second think we don't test you half as much as you do us. Concerts, sports events, movies, dinner and a movie, the sack, women get sized up and overanalyzed occasionally. Just because you met his mom doesn't make you snug in the safe zone. is it fucked up? Totally. Have I done that? No. Have I seen it in action oh lord yes. It's a scare tactic, a tactic to get her in the comfort zone, or maybe he just wanted his mom to see what he's banging for shits and giggles.
Joker said (far more eloquently) what I was trying to say.
And, by the way, ME... don't be pissed at me (which it seems like you are)... I thought you truly wanted our honest opinions.
She isn't Ben. Trust me, she's just frustrated with us penis wielders and she's very passionate about her friends. Now me talking on her behalf, THAT may piss her off hehehe. So don't fret.
The guys have spoken and they’re pretty much saying the same thing.
Is this not the answer you were looking for?
Why can’t your friend just have some much deserved fun? Or… she can always spend the rest of her life looking for Mr. Right.
No dudes, honestly I am not pissed at all. (Funny on why this always happens when I write about this theme) In fact, I am dead curious to understand men's logic, that's all. Believe me. I'm peaches with ice cream on top.
I just wanted as much opinions as I could gather so that she can make an honest choice on what to do. Remember, you might think you all answered the same thing, wonderful. I don't think you all did. Some of you have given some great arguments that I think she needs to read. Most of all, some pointers that I could not have thought of.
For my opinion, which I haven't stated... This is a dude who wants to hide the prosciutto (I don't like Salami) and is taking her for a ride on the friends with benefits wagon.
Furthermore, I told her that she shouldn't think more outside the box than the current situation, because if there is one flaw women have is thinking way ahead and falling on their asses later.
Well guys, it's time to let her know what you said.
I'll keep you posted on it.
Thanks a lot!
WAIT! Kids!!!!!!
Do friends with benefits also bring their kids to meet their fuck buddies???
What's up with that???
It's fucked up if he says well son, you might be able to call her mommy, but not yet because she's still in the trial phase. Now give her a hug.
You're leaving out important details. The guy's definitely a fuck-up, and all he wants to do is maximize his market penetration.
If your friend can't see that by now, then she's only asking for more heartbreak.
If she wants something serious, then move on. If she just wants to have some fun, then by all means...
The important thing is that she remain CLEAR.
CLEAR is a 2x4 upside the head.
Seriously.
Don't be obtuse. D I R E C T is the approach that is needed, generally speaking, with us "penis wielders."
Is it important that the guy was married over 20 years and just got divorced?
I think he wants to fuck everything he sees in order to catch up on what he didn't do (or whom) for those years...
I think the old saying is 4-5 months for every year he/she was married. So, following that formula (which was about right in my case), he should be sane in about 4 to 5 years.
And yes, given the recent additional information provided, and based on what I think your friend is looking for, she should bolt.
Or, enjoy the sausage.
@ Me : please define "just got divorced."
20 years married? I can't see any possible way he is currently Actual/Real/Adult relationship Material if he hasn't been divorced for AT A VERY MINIMUM 2 years.... 4 or 5 would be much more reasonable.
Seriously. If she's merely playing with his prosciutto, then who cares? If she's genuinely interested in a relationship, there's more than one red flag here... and I'm saying this as a fellow Dude who wants his brethren to have as much fun as the ladies will allow... but honest and genuine is the only way to go. That includes Mr. Prosciutto being honest with himself.
Well Dan and Tex, the dude has been divorced for a year or so, I think. So maybe your theory is right, and thank you because you said another insight that I didn't think about.
So... what happened? Did she read it all??? Yes!!!!!
My friends, I have to thank you all, you penis and testicle owners. I called her up late at work to say that my research was kind of over, so she should start reading.
She agrees with you (gasp) on many things, like that she changed the rules mid game, she's going forward maybe a bit too soon... But also that the guy has many red flags and has Fuck up tendencies.
At the end she decided to move on to greener and bigger peni... I mean pastures. Let's just hope Mr. Meet the Kids doesn't start going postal and call every 45 minutes, because that usually doesn't help.
So, much love you all you semen makers, trust me you did a good deed by ratting out your fellow dudes.
I would repay you with something nasty and full of chocolate, but then I'd get into trouble and we would need another post, to help me this time.
Much love, Me.
So... Did I say move on? Um. I guess I wrote the news too fast. Nope, she thought it over again, and...
Did someone say enjoy the ride and see what happens? Well... She's enjoying the Vienna Sausage as I write.
I gotta accept one thing. We women change our minds more than we change our shoes.
I just hope she's happy.
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